what’s christmas even like in non-christian families? in completely non-religious families? like what do you tell your children? “well, kids, we’re eating a whole lot of food and spending a fuckton of money spoiling you because some other people somewhere believe their holy lord and saviour and the greatest person to walk the earth was born 2000 years ago. here’s a playstation.”
yeah pretty much
i legit didnt know non-christians celebrated christmas… literally never crossed my mind
We do, and basically it’s like “Hey kids, let’s decorate a tree, exchange presents, eat a fuckload of food, and get a picture with the creepy mall Santa that probably will be arrested next week”. I didn’t even know it was a religious holiday until I was 9
Christmas was celebrated here (in Norway) for several thousand years before Christianity got here. There was literally nothing Christian about it in the beginning, the Christians just figured it’d be easier to say that Jesus was born on a day that was already celebrated than to make up a new holiday and force it on people
Pretty much every culture in the northern hemisphere has had a celebration in the fuck-all heart of winter purely because it’s depressing as fuck when it’s cold all the time and dark for 90% of the time
So long before jesus was born someone was like
“k it’s cold and dark and the view outside is literally identical to our concept of hell but I made you this candle stop being sad”
Yep, Easter existed before Jesus died on this day. Basically pretty much every “Christian” holiday was put on a pagan holiday, like lots of churches were also built on pagan places of worship. That’s how they made Christianity a success. We call that marketing now.
Christmas is rooted in pre-Christian Solstice celebrations. By Dec. 25th, days are getting noticeably longer. Light is triumphing over the dark. Spring and life will eventually return. In the dead of winter, the promise of renewal. It’s an ancient and powerful thing, that has been integral to human culture and religion in every culture around the globe.
Christians couldn’t get people to stop celebrating their solstice feast days, so they replaced the ‘rebirth of the sun’ celebrations with a ‘birth of the son’ celebration. Literally all they did was tweak existing mythology and relabel old traditions.
Christmas is far, far older than Christianity. Don’t flatter yourselves.
Additionally the birth of Christ was probably sometime in the spring or summer. (we base this on tax times and lambing seasons). By and large*, Christians didn’t start celebrating the birth of Jesus in December until 336 when Roman Emperor Constantine did a whole bunch of shady stuff to give his momma’s religion more power/importance and basically set Christianity on the sucky ass path it’s been on every since. (fyi it was Pope Julius I who made it an official holiday a few years later).
*There is some speculation on why this was so easily accepted. One reason being that for reasons not quite known the date was already associated with Jesus’s birth. In the second century Hippolytus wrote in passing that Jesus’s birthday was on December 25th and I think this gets largely ignored because it doesn’t fit with the currently popular historical narrative. That said humans have long had traditions of combining/appropriating regional holidays as populations move into and out of areas and we have ALWAYS had a mid winter holiday for reasons.
tl;dr: The most readily identified secular Christmas observations/symbols/etc aren’t Christian at all, so it’s not remotely odd to me that Christmas is celebrated by nonchristians. It’s odder to me that nonchristians get all riled up when those secular symbols are attacked. (like holiday reindeer cups, etc)
ps. I realize that those symbols are not secular to everyone, but in most current observances there is little knowledge or understanding of their religious roots.
“CLIMBS UP ON SOAPBOX”
ALSO BECAUSE I’M NOT DONE
Christmas trees? Why the fuck do we drag a tree into our house and decorate it in the middle of winter? Because the evergreen is an ancient pagan symbol associated with immortality and rebirth, as it’s the only tree that is green in the dead of winter. Romans used fir branches to decorate their homes at Saturnalaia. Pagans in Europe used fir and holly branches to remind themselves that rebirth and growth would return, as even the coldest winter could not kill all the green growing things. It doesn’t have fuckall to do with Jesus, kids.
Santa? The wise old man who rides a sleigh drawn by eight reindeer through the sky on Yule Night? Based on Odin, the Allfather of the Norse Gods, who rode his eight-legged steed Slepnir on a hunt through the sky on Yule night. Children would leave their boots out, filled with hay or root vegetables for Odin’s mount as an offering. If this pleased Odin, he would leave gifts in return, for all gifts must be returned in kind.
Sound familiar?? (Right and the reindeer? A hugely important animal to most of the Northern European cultures where solstice celebrations originated. They also have ties to the Horned God, the god of the hunt, which associates them with Odin’s ride with the Wild Hunt on Yule Eve. Again, ain’t got shit-all to do with Jesus.)
Christmas.
Ain’t.
Christian.
*builds a soapbox big enough for the both of us, passes you a cup of eggnog and a spiced cookie*
Don’t get me started on St. Nic.
Saint Nicolas (the Wonderworker) was a wealthy, 4th century Turkish saint (so the likelihood of that round white man with the white beard…yeah…pretty slim *snickers at pun*) with a reputation for secret gift giving, ie putting coins in shoes…which I wonder where that notion would have come from? I mean on the one hand, yes, previously existing traditions from others, but also, shoes are handy? and a place someone is likely to absolutely not miss a thing.
But really, THAT’S IT. He didn’t leave toys for children or build them or any such thing. What we have is just have a good ol’ case of FUSION going on wherein the Christians were super excited to have someone of their own who could take on the traits of a figure most likely already common in their time/geography. Because I’ma guess folks really didn’t want to give up this kind of fun.
It REALLY helped that St. Nic’s feast day was early December.
The holiday took off during the Middle Ages in areas where anything pagan had better be rebranded as Christian or folks couldn’t keep it. St. Nic was handy, became Sinterklass and heck yes took a whole bunch from Odin cause you know…Odin needed a Christian face if he was going to continue spoiling kids with sweets.
As it stands now, St. Nic is nearly lost in all but name, but man…when people start getting super passionate about their white santa I like to drag him out and wave him around.
GESTICULATES WILDLY AT ABOVE POST WHILE SHOVING COOKIE INTO MOUTH
And St. Nick became associated with the earlier Odin myth BECAUSE he shared some features compatible with the Odin myth and was a suitable Christian figure to use to cover up the older, pagan roots of the tradition!
SANTA IS EITHER A TURKISH MAN OR THE POWERFUL KING OF A PAGAN PANTHEON TAKE YOUR PICK EITHER WAY YOUR JOLLY LITTLE WHITE SANTA IS A LIE.
AND THEN THE ELVES. FUCK ME THE ELVES.
Tied inextricably to the myths of the ‘little people,’ and of course to the powerful Sidhe and the dwarves of Norse myth, who crafted wondrous gifts for the gods in their marvelous workshops.
The Fair Folk were well known for punishing those who crossed them, and conversely richly rewarding those who pleased them. Or, in other words, “The Naughty and Nice.”
“Swigs eggnog, drops mic.”
Okay so like my favorite awful Christmas movie is the Life and Adventures of Santa Claus because holy heck it takes all the pagan elements cuts them up and stitches them into this wild but somehow historically honest (not accurate, honest, there’s a difference) quilt and yes, the naughty and nice fair/forest folk just– *flails until you reassure me that you’ve seen this claymation masterpiece*
This is why our tree is basically forest, fey, and mythological creatures because honestly the magic and wonder of the season is what I love the most.
Also, I sorta hate round fat jolly santa and I think we could have largely helped me get over that as a child if he had just ridden a beautiful giant grey horse.
NOW
DO WE EVEN WANT TO GET INTO THE MESS THAT IS YULE LOGS?
OH FUCK I THOUGHT NO ONE ELSE EVEN KNEW ABOUT THAT MOVIE MY MOTHER WATCHED IT WITH US WHEN I WAS A LITTLE BUDDING FILTHY HEATHEN AND SHE WAS ALREADY A FULLY FLEDGED FILTHY HEATHEN.
My tree is all vintage glass ornaments that I’ve gotten from thrift shops because I love the sheer beauty of them and because I feel like my pagan ancestors would have also loved them.
And OH FUCK YULE LOGS, traditionally cut from an oak tree, which has such deep rich symbolism in old pagan mythology that it’s worthy of a whole essay on its own, decorated with evergreen and holly for rebirth and immortality, and burned on the solstice to celebrate the return of light and warmth.
There’s an old, old rhyme for this;
May the log burn,
May the wheel turn,
May evil spurn,
May the Sun return.
And then of course the ashes were used as powerful protection and fertility charms.
CHRISTIANITY CONTENT; 0.000000%.
“Offers spiced mead and gingerbread.”
I thoroughly enjoyed reading this and…
HOLY CRAP, OTHER PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THAT MOVIE?! IT’S MY FAV FUCKING XMAS MOVIE AND WHEN I SHOW IT TO PEOPLE THEY’RE LIKE…WTF DID I JUST WATCH?!
Now….can I get on this spiced mead and cookies business?!
YEEAAAAAHHHHHH I love this whole thread!
In my country, in the little town my grandparents used to live, people still burn a decorated log at Solstice and masked men in furs dangle big cows’ bells to scare the darkness away. I live in Romania.
So can I make tshirts that says
CHRISTMAS IS A LIE - HAPPY YULE!! with all the “traditional Christmas” symbols like reindeer and evergreens and such because thats all Pagan symbolism anyway??
I wanna make this shirt. I live in the bible belt. I need it.
For the person also living in Romania, technically, we weren’t exactly pagans and our culture is now deeply rooted in Christianity.
But!
We did keep some of the traditions the Romans and Daci (don’t know the English word for it) celebrated.
They don’t come to mind right now, but if you guys remember any of them, please share!
Yes! I love and appreciate everything on here! Have a fucking awesome yule my fellow heathens
Aries: taking hot showers, adrenaline rushes, dark lipstick, thunderstorms, rose petals, the taste of salt, stealing glances, colourful skies, earth's scent
Taurus: blushing, flannels, singing soft tunes, forests, coper, indie music, architecture, the taste of tangerines, greek mythology
Gemini: deja vu, braiding someones hair, potted plants, the colour yellow, vintage stores, clouds, going to a festival, forgiveness, springtime
Cancer: shy smiles, sleepy mornings, little cafes, soft skin, sunlight shining trough curtains, dreams, dipping your feet in water, starry eyes, messy hair
Leo: marble floors, sunflowers, golden sunsets, oversized jackets, bronze glowing skin, art galeries, summer rain, new beginnings, origami stars
Virgo: pressed flowers, silk, listening to records, simplicity, the sound of typewriters, dogs, window shopping, old bookstores, poëtry
Libra: being in love for the first time, autumn leaves, rosé wine, fairy lights, watercolours, sleeping with open windows, laughter, flower shops, bumblebees
Scorpio: shadows, nights spent watching movies, finger guns, crashing waves, crystals, old photographs, dark eyes, lighting a flame, fancy cars
Sagittarius: freckles, wildflowers, rollor coasters, foreign languages, smirks, curiosity, traveling by plane, making someone smile, fruit trees
Capricorn: comfortable silences, cozy sweaters, fresh air, songs that trigger memories, cats, old movies, long walks, silver moons, witchcraft
Aquarius: new haircuts, misty roads, city lights, the cosmos, non-matching socks, dancing alone, deep conversations, the sound of rain, piano's
Pisces: inside jokes, nose kisses, finding lost things, fairy tales, tenderness, being trusted with a secret, waterfalls, unique features, handwritten letters
The main thing that I recall from high school English is that, after you reach a certain age, the curriculum decides that books with happy endings and likable characters are stupid and babyish and that you’re only allowed dysfunction, oppression, and misery in your literature from now on.
If you somehow avoided depression so far, the school will provide you with some.
If you do not have a depression one will be allocated to you
when i was a little kid, i didn’t care for movies. my parents always admonished me for sitting too close to the screen or fidgeting too much, so i turned to books instead. when i was four, i tried to watch the first harry potter movie. i absolutely loved it, but it wasn’t enough for me. i had to get my hands on that book. the teachers at pre-school said it was a horrible idea, but i read the first two books anyway.
then came kindergarten. the teachers scolded my parents for letting me bring novels to school. “she can’t possibly understand them,” they said. so they gave me tests on the books. i made perfect scores on all of them. i preferred books to movies and television; movies didn’t do justice to the stories i loved.
so, they marked me down as a “gifted child.” they tested my IQ and everything. i was the perfect student, in their eyes. i sat in the front and listened to the teachers as intently as i could.
one day after school, i ran up to my mother and hugged her. then, i turned my head and saw my mother walking towards me. i looked up at the woman i had hugged. “you’re not my mother,” i said, astutely.
my mother, a clever woman, thought to have my eyesight tested. turns out, i had horrible vision. somewhere around 20/450. functionally blind without glasses. not ideal for anyone, especially a six year old.
all my life until that point, people thought i must be some sort of brilliant prodigy, eschewing television and movies for more intellectual pursuits, but actually i just couldn’t fucking see lol
Ty: Someone please explain the word “y'all” to me.
Livvy: Singular - ya’ll.
Dru: Plural - all y'all.
kit: Alternate plural - all'a y'all.
Emma: Possessive pronoun - y'all’s.
Mark: Future tense - y'all’ll.
Ty:…
Jules: Congratulations. The five of you singlehandedly murdered the English language for the boy.
“make her playlists and send her books. feed her soul and water her mind. serenade her intellect, and communicate with her on a deeper level.”
— iambrillyant (via wnq-writers)
Everyone assumes that they’re warm, and cuddly, quiet. To an extent, they’re right; they do love cashmere sweaters and burrowing under blankets in the winter to escape the cold. They do love cuddling, an entanglement of limbs to keep close; sometimes with arms around one another, and other times head tucked underneath the chin. They love midnight snacking, food plays a large role in their happiness because there’s nothing nicer than a warm chocolate chip cookie against the tongue. But there are Hufflepuff boys that are filled to the brim with angst; some like to have dates in the Forbidden Forest because the thrill makes their heart race. They aren’t always positive, they can be cynical and loud when drunk, rivalling even the Gryffindor in wildness. Some Hufflepuff Boys prefer to have dates at concerts with loud music and will dance with arms in the air and their bodies thrumming. They’re not to be protected but fight back instead; they come back with bruised knuckles and a broken nose waiting to be patched up because no one is allowed to insult someone they love. They’re not always the peacekeepers, sometimes they can be the tormented angry boys, waiting to lash out but with the capacity to love so strongly. Some are so extroverted and some are deeply introverted but their love is always constant.
They probably create a mixture of wary and highly attracted to them in whoever notices them. They’ve given into the mysterious stereotype surrounding them, and they take pleasure in wearing thick long coats with high collars that acceuntate their high cheekbones. Almost finding it funny that people assume that there is something dark about them, when really they’re only inspired by Sherlock Holmes. They’re ridiculously beautiful with deep, musical, lovely laughter of any type. They enjoy going to comedy clubs for dates in which their cynicism can be matched and they love watching others join in shared amusement. It’s expected that their favorite season would be winter-marching their cold exterior-but it’s not. It’s surprisingly spring. They like when all the new flowers bloom and they can name all of them, along with the different meanings in different cultures. They’ll spend hours making specialised flower bouquets (which they sell on Valentine’s Day obviously, making loads of cash). There is always something soft within them and some don’t even have the cold exterior, they’re just mellow, happy people, easily being mistaken for a Hufflepuff Boy. They believe in true love and every relationship for them means something, even the meaningless ones.
Sometimes it seems like they have the entire encyclopaedia swallowed down their throats. Others, seem like they’ve never opened a textbook in their lives. The ridiculously intelligent ones are hungry, greedy for more knowledge, spending long nights running on coffee, and a thirst for finishing the next chapter of a book, textbook, anything. If they plan a museum date, they will inevitably ask for a tour guide just to challenge them at every point, making for a hilarious date at the expense of an annoyed tour guide. There’s a certain arrogance within them, knowing they’ll be correct and they’ll get the desired effect-a personality trait resembling a Slytherin Boy. Then there are some, who enjoy star-gazing dates where they can point out each constellation and every myth and legend that goes along with it. So different from the usual Ravenclaw Boy, who can tell you each stars coordinates and scientific discovery. The other Ravenclaw Boys are filled with useless facts that they sprout out randomly just to see the other be confused. They spend hours arguing on things that they know doesn’t follow the norm, always keeping their cool because their arrogance is more muted, but still present. They’re funny with their witty humour, not allowing anyone to walk over them. They enjoy long nights contemplating the smallest details, willing to talk for hours about anything and everything-even without meaning.
They’re hyper-charged. Running on a wild energy that makes them move on quickly and then they find the one that makes them stop and hold on. Their devotion is intense and full, they plan extravagant dates and they give thoughtful little gifts that will make people smile. They give into the stereotype of being loud and smiling widely all the time, that their anger is hot and brash. It leads to harsh fights and passionate makeups. A rollercoaster of person. Except, there are some Gryffindor Boys that aren’t addicted to the thrill but enjoy quiet nights in. They like homemade dinners with mismatched candles lit in the middle of the table. They like snapping photos during movie night dates with a box of pizza between, just basking in one another’s presence with no extra adventure needed. They like collecting small things that remind them of moments of the relationship: the first movie ticket, the bottle cap, a pressed flower from the first bouquet -that they got from Slytherin- and their fights aren’t loud and harsh, but instead it’s cold and calculating. They curl inwards and protect themselves, their emotions aren’t always laid out in front of you. Their love is always warm in both instance.
~ Follow my IG: @alohomoramarauders
Shout out to people like me who have parents who are loving but are black holes of emotional labor… It took me a long time to realize that it’s okay to have mixed feelings about your parents, about your relationship with them.
Sometimes parents can love you but be somewhat toxic to you and your growth, and that’s a very hard realization to come to if you, like me, grew up extremely close to them.
Sometimes parents can love you genuinely but lack emotional maturity, forcing you to perform disproportionate amounts of emotional labor. Some parents manifest symptoms of their mental illness in ways that are toxic to your mental illness.
Some parents, like mine, try so hard to be good parents but fall back on habits of emotional manipulation because they haven’t processed their own traumas and are modeling behavior they grew up with. That doesn’t make their behavior acceptable, and it’s okay to feel exhausted and hurt when they betray you. You don’t have to forgive every mistake.
I want you to know that it’s okay to protect yourself, to need some space apart from them. The love you have for your parents is still valid, and you are making the right decision.
Placing a safe emotional distance between myself and my parents has been one of the most difficult, heartbreaking processes I’ve ever gone through… it hurts to try to curb the strength of your own natural empathy around people you love. It feels disingenuous to your heart’s natural state.
But I promise you, you are not hard-hearted or ungrateful, and you are not abandoning them. You are making a decision about your own emotional, mental, and spiritual health.
I know what it’s like in that confusing grey area of love mixed with guilt and anxiety, of exhaustion and quasi-manipulation and unreciprocated emotional labor, and I promise you, you are not alone.
Your mixed feelings about your parents are valid.
